Common Endocrine Disruptors and Hormone Health

Dr. Robert Rountree:

This is the Thorne Podcast, the show that navigates the complex world of wellness and explores the latest science behind diet, supplements, and lifestyle approaches to good health.

I'm Dr. Robert Rountree, chief medical advisor at Thorne and functional medicine doctor. As a reminder, the recommendations made in this podcast are the recommendations of the individuals who express them and not the recommendations of Thorne. Statements in this podcast have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any products mentioned are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

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Hi, everyone, and welcome to The Thorne Podcast. As always, I'm looking forward to diving deep into some health and wellness topics with you. Once again, I'm joined by a friend of the pod and Thorne's Vice President of Medical Affairs, Dr. Amanda Frick. How's it going, Amanda?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

It's going great, Bob. How are you?

Dr. Robert Rountree:

I'm really good. I'm really good. So let's get into the main topic. This week we're going to unpack something called endocrine disruptors. Now, this is a big topic, a huge topic, and today we're going to dig into the science surrounding the conversation. So Dr. Frick, can you lay the groundwork for what we'll be covering? Exactly what are endocrine disruptors? How are they defined, and why should anyone care?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

So many reasons. Well, basically, to keep it simple, an endocrine disruptor is anything that can interfere with how your body's hormones are working. So it could shut them down, it could amplify them, it could increase them, it could just sort of make them be metabolized in a haywire situation. But an endocrine disruptor is interfering [with] how your body is using hormones.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

So hormones are things made by glands in the body like insulin or cortisol or estrogen or things like that?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Exactly. So it's not just hormones. I think a tendency, we think hormone and we're thinking estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, but not just those, like you're saying, thyroid hormone, cortisol, any hormone could be interfered with by a chemical interactor.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

There's been an emerging story that shows up in the news a lot lately, which is that there's certain man-made chemicals in the environment, so things that are new to our bodies, somehow interact with these hormone signaling pathways. Do we have an understanding of how those interactions occur, why they occur?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I think we do for some and others maybe not so much, because they have different ways, and it depends on what they are and how they're blocking. Some of them are because they're acting like a hormone and so sort of attaching to hormone activity sites in your body and amplifying how you would be reacting by acting like fake extra hormone. And then other ones I think are more, if you have to detox them in your liver and then you can't metabolize your hormones because your liver is busy detoxing some sort of chemical, then they can work in that way, too. But I'm sure there are more.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

What's the downside of this? Aren't we having some epidemics of chronic problems? I mean, what really comes to mind is thyroid issues, first of all, and then fertility issues is the second one. So can you speak to those?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah, I mean, I think that's when we started noticing. And there's tracking and patterns over time. I mean, we also didn't use to use plastic for basically every single thing we're doing.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

That's easy to pick out as a glaring change because many of these things come from plastics or are related to them. And then the other thing is pesticides. So definitely pesticide use is increased. More and more manufacturing plants are releasing more toxic chemicals, so things in the environment and in the air. I mean, basically, you could be getting an endocrine disruptor in your food, in your water, on your clothes, in your beauty products, and by breathing. So they're basically everywhere and pervasive in our surroundings.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Wow, that's kind of a scary thought.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Kind of is.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Now, the companies that make these chemicals often go on record by saying, “Well, the amounts we're exposed to are too low to be a problem.” So what is your response to that? We shouldn't be worried? Yeah, if you measure these chemicals, we do tend to have a lot of them in our bloodstream, but the manufacturers say, “So what? Our body can handle that.”

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Our body can handle it, but I think it's more of the delicate balance, right? We're talking about black and white medicine or some kind of diagnostic criteria and not necessarily functionally what is making people's bodies function at an optimal level. And it's definitely making a disruption at that level.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

One of the things that I've read is that toxicologists make this argument that the dose is too low, but endocrinologists, the hormone specialists that deal with things like infertility or thyroid problems, they're used to measuring extremely low levels of these hormones in our body. So our body already knows the difference between say 5 parts per million or 20 parts per million, which seems really, really low, but our bodies basically can sense the equivalent of a change of 10 grains of sand in a swimming pool versus 2 grains of sand. Is that true?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I don't know that I can speak to that's true, but I would love to be able to discuss it more than that. That's crazy.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

I mean, when we measure estrogen levels, we measure in picograms.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I see what you're saying. I get it.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah, we measure, or nanograms, so we're measuring these tiny, tiny amounts, but it doesn't seem tiny because if you get a lab test, if you go to your doctor and your doctor says, "I want to measure your estrogen levels." Well, you get a number, like 54, and 54 doesn't seem high or low. But then if you look at the units that it's coming in, the units are tiny. And clearly, women that have PMS, for example, can be really sensitive to these very slight changes in their hormone levels. So I'd almost say that women with something like premenstrual syndrome, you don't need to convince them that these slight changes can make a difference.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Oh, and then arguably, there are so many women with PMS because of these slight changes.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yes.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

That's the flip side. I just did a quick fact check, 80 to 95% of women experience some premenstrual syndrome symptoms.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Oh, my God.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

It's insane.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

I had no idea it was that high. So do we have some sense of how environmental factors influence PMS? I mean, I know it's going to be somewhat speculative, but do we have any idea of say how foods that they eat or toxins in their environment may be influencing their symptoms?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I don't know. I think like you said, it's mostly speculative for what the impact is or what the level of impact coming from all those sources are. But we do know you can find endocrine disruptors in all of those sources. And in some ways, there are some great resources out there, too, for you to look at how you can limit them in your diet, how to limit them in your beauty products, and that's a huge start.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah. So you're talking about limiting things like phthalates, for example ...

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

... plasticizers that are pretty ubiquitous in beauty products.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yes, exactly, things that are more common than you think. People have arguments about which of them are more important to avoid than others. But the environmental working group, the EWG.org, has a really neat set. So they have lots of neat things, but one of them, it's called Skin Deep, and you can go in and look at your beauty products or enter, “I use this brand mascara,” and it will give it a toxicity score and then break down all the components in it and then why it has the score and sort of what it could be doing in your system, which I think is such a cool resource.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Now, some people would say, well, if it's bad for us, then wouldn't the government be regulating that or preventing that? So what do you have to say about that? Can we trust the government? I mean, it's nothing to do with trusting the government in general or not, but specifically, is the government, the public health agencies, are they addressing these issues or what?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I think that they address them at macro levels and maybe not as sensitively at smaller micro levels as I would like. I mean, we have things that we allow in our food and beauty products in the United States that are not allowed in Europe.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Oh.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

There are other countries who are a lot more progressive, sort of fussy, I think, for what they allow to have their communities exposed to. And I think we're on a little bit of the liberal side of letting more through.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Now, I imagine if these things are affecting hormone levels in very subtle ways that pregnancy would be a particularly concerning time.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Pregnancy and pre-pregnancy. So if there's difficulty in pregnancy, it could be related to endocrine disruption, or maybe your cycle isn't quite functioning properly because of them. So yeah, I mean, daily basis or monthly basis, women may experience PMS, but it can also add problems like you're saying, if you're trying to become pregnant and especially watchful when you are pregnant. And some of these things can cross the barrier and end up, you can be exposing your infant to these things. So yeah, an additional time, I mean, like anything else, right, being extra careful and important about what you're exposed to during pregnancy. But also men. I mean, men have hormone disruption, too. That could affect their fertility. There are things that are more sensitive for men and sperm count, and then hormone balance is important, just as important as women age as it is for men.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Within the last few years, there's been studies suggesting that sperm counts were dropping all over the world. Is that still thought to be the case?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah, I've seen that, too.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

That's a big concern.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah. Seems like that would get some attention.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah. I mean, I remember a book called Living Downstream by, I think, Sandra Steingraber that said baby boys are being born with all kinds of strange anatomical abnormalities. And the whole idea about living downstream was that the areas where these things were happening the most were areas where there were more of these chemicals in the water supply.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I haven't seen that, but that makes total sense.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Makes a lot of sense. The other thing that I saw not too long ago was perchlorate in the water supply. Perchlorate comes from rocket fuels, from hard rocket fuels. So it can theoretically come from any place where there's jets landing, etc., and it turns out perchlorate blocks the thyroid hormone pathway. And so that was scary. And then I looked it up, and I found out even more perchlorate actually used to be used as a prescription drug for people that had hyperthyroidism. So the thought that this thing used to be a drug and now it's ubiquitous in the water supply is a little bit scary.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Accidental exposure to a thyroid suppression drug.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

A drug. So what about foods that might otherwise be considered healthy? I've heard certain experts say, "Well, soy products are an endocrine disruptor." And some even go so far as to say, "Well, people shouldn't eat soy, or women in particular shouldn't eat soy." I wonder if you have a perspective on that.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah, I have a different bit of a perspective on that because I think the part that's true is that soy can mimic estrogen or it's a very weak estrogen mimicker, but you can use that to your benefit or to your detriment. It depends on where you are, what your balance is, how much you get exposed to. And so we would even, there are nutritional supplements on the market that I used while I was in training that were contained for estrogen powder, trying to give someone phytoestrogen on purpose. So you could use it in two ways. The total is low and you're trying to give a really gentle amount through food by adding estrogen in the diet. And then the converse is they're much weaker than normal or hormonal estrogens or produced estrogens. And so if someone has too much floating around, you could also think of using it for something like PMS or estrogen dominance because you're sort of booting out the stronger ones and replacing them with a weaker food-based component.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

So you're saying yes, soy products, or I guess it's the isoflavones in the soy have estrogen-like properties, but that they don't interact with the body in a way that you'd consider harmful, correct?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I think mostly I wouldn't consider harmful, but just like anything else, it's moderation. If you are only eating soy products all day, you drink soy milk, you eat soybeans, you're eating soy meat replacements, tofu, fermented soys, it's possible you could take in too much soy, for sure.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

You could overdo it, but it sounds like you're saying you'd have to work at it.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I think you'd have to work at it.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

I mean, eating soy three times a day, I don't even think in Asia they eat that much of it. I mean, at least my experience in being in China and Japan is that people put tofu in their food or a little bit of tempeh in their food or miso soup or soy sauce, but it's not like it's every meal or all the time.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Exactly. It's a component or a flavoring or an addition and not all soy all day.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Soy is not the only food that has this kind of, sort of, almost estrogen-like effect that – I'm deliberately being wishy-washy about this – because soy is not estrogen. It just interacts with the same pathways, right?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Correct.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

OK. So what other foods are in that same category? Isn't flax in there, for example?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yep. Flax, simple things like garlic, certain types of berries can have... We're talking very weak, but yes, components or compounds that would act in that way.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

So it seems to me, and I think I've read articles that kind of speculated this, that the big concern is these synthetic pesticides that our body is not used to. And so you have these substances in pesticides that interact with the estrogen pathways and really screw it up, whereas we've eaten soy for a long time or legumes that have similar chemicals for a long time. So our body's used to the food but not used to the synthetic chemical. Do you think that's a fair argument?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I do. I think that's completely fair.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

So how would birth control pills ...? Here's a loaded question. What about oral contraceptive agents, the synthetic estrogens and the medroxyprogesterones and things like that that we've newly introduced into our systems in the last decades? What's your perspective on that?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I would say that they are extremely effective, purposeful, endocrine disruptors.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

OK. So they are endocrine disruptors, but in a positive way for what we're using them for.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Right. Basically, they're so strong enough that they interfere with normal hormone production to the point of inhibiting fertility or inhibiting release of ova or whatever the mechanism, depending on the birth control pill or some other things, try to prevent implantation. I mean, there's so many steps, but the whole point of it is that they're so strong, they're purposefully messing up your normal hormone cycle so that fertility doesn't work anymore.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

So a person listening to this may say, "Hey, wait a minute, you're talking about these potentially toxic chemicals in our environment that cause harm because they interfere with our endocrine hormone signaling pathways. And yet here we're doing this deliberately." But I also hear you say the irony is that the higher doses of the birth control pills may actually be what keeps them from being so problematic. Should I reword that question?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I don't understand the very last part.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

OK. So the idea is that when you're using full-on doses of hormones, oddly enough, they don't seem to be as harmful as the very low doses because the very low doses confuse the body. Whereas when you use higher doses, it has this very direct effect on the signaling pathway. So it prevents fertility, right, prevents ovulation.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Right. I think also, now I think I'm tracking more what you were saying. I wonder or theoretically it is that these strong hormones are completely suppressing your own.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

So you've only got this one-track function of these synthetic hormones in your system. But if you're getting exposed to BPA and phthalates and food and your normal estrogens, then it's sort of like this additive jumbled effect rather than a one-track lane.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying is that at first you might think, “Well, wait a minute, if these synthetic hormones are bad for you, then won't more be worse?” But not necessarily.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah, I agree. Not necessarily.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Not necessarily. So again, we're giving a lot of young women birth control pills. And at first glance, you might say, "Wow, isn't that going to cause a lot of cancer," for example? But we have not seen that to be the case. And birth control pills have been around for a long time. And this has been studied in millions of women. And we're just not seeing that, correct?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah, we haven't. I mean, I remember the big scare tactic at first. When I was young, it was still believed that they would cause problems like that, and it just hasn't come to fruition in that way. I think part of it is we've gotten really good at the progesterone balancing options. There used to only be progesterone pills and then there's estrogen, then there's combo, and then they've gotten really great at the minimal amount of synthetic hormone that you need to use to have an effective dose. And so I think that that's helped a lot, too. Even so, now there's benefits showing for continuing birth control into later age or possibly protective effects on bone health because of keeping estrogen from completely dropping or cardiovascular protective effects, like things that we thought were super scary maybe there's always a flip side.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Now, here's a little factoid from my past you probably didn't know about, but when I was in college, I actually did an animal study where we were looking at the effects of estradiol on lab animals and we found that the estradiol depleted them of B vitamins, especially B6. What do you think about the importance of supplementing with nutrients for women on birth control pills, things like vitamin B6 or other minerals or things like that? Do you have any opinion about that?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I do. You're stealing my thunder, Bob. [Laughs]

Dr. Robert Rountree:

[Laughs] OK. 

Dr. Amanda Frick:

It was, I would say, probably 80% or more of my patients in private practice were using some sort of hormonal birth control, and almost everyone in my practice got a B vitamin for the exact reasons. So part of that is the B vitamins that need to get utilized, you take in the hormone, you still have to process it and metabolize it for it to work. And when you do that, it's getting metabolized through your liver, and you need to utilize nutrients to do that. And birth control pills tend to sort of suck you dry or limit your access to B vitamins. So I would always have my patients on a B vitamin extra, like double-edged sword, like you said, B6 in particular gets depleted because it's so heavily involved in estrogen metabolism, but also deficiencies in B6 lead to increased issues with PMS. So you're like double-edged there.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Double-edged, but it all kind of builds in together. So what I've heard from our discussion is we should be concerned about exposure to very low amounts of certain synthetic chemicals that could be interfering with our hormone processing signaling, etc. But there might be some things we can do about that, like nutritional supplementation, etc. Is that a good summary of that? So we should be concerned about this environmental thing, but at the same time, maybe we can be proactive.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Definitely can be proactive with some supplementation, avoidance of or making selections of the types of products that you use that are lower or lacking in these types of ingredients. And then also utilizing diet and food in a way to help detox and process them from your body by eating liver-supportive foods or fiber-containing foods, normal things that you do to just help process any other sort of environmental contaminant works well on these as well.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

OK. So now we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we'll take some questions that will go into these topics in a little more detail.

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And we're back. So now it's time to answer some questions from the community. Our first question this week comes from a listener who asks, "Can you discuss how endocrine disruptors might influence conditions like PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, or endometriosis, and especially for those who are using birth control to manage these conditions?" So it seems like that's a two-part question that maybe we should answer. First of all, how do endocrine disruptors influence the conditions? And then is there a special case in people on birth control? Do you have any thoughts about that?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah, I think this goes back to what we were discussing a bit earlier. So the sort of accidental or environmental exposure aspect of endocrine disruptors could exacerbate endometriosis particularly and PCOS. So we know both of those things are because hormones are out of balance or in excess or not working right or a combo of those things. And so adding those accidental endocrine disruptors could exacerbate or make worse, or removing them could help improve or lessen some of those symptomatic aspects of those conditions.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Removing them like having a cleaner diet or using fewer cosmetics.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah, limiting exposure.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah, limiting exposure. I remember years ago reading that dioxin had been implicated in endometriosis, and dioxin is really fairly ubiquitous in our environment. So yeah, that's one example of a known association. Are you saying that people who are on birth control should be even more careful with their diet and cosmetics and personal care products?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I think that that's more of a philosophical approach, that the birth control pill is so much stronger than the environmental exposures that you're getting. You're almost trumping over them, but they're not without side effects. So if the excess hormone symptoms, which do happen when you're utilizing hormonal birth control, are problematic, it's possible that the additional effect of the external factors could be problematic, but maybe not necessarily. I wouldn't say there would need to be extra concern depending on how your hormones are balanced as you're taking your birth control pill.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

You've almost answered the next question. So the person says, "I've read that certain foods and plastics contain endocrine disruptors, hormone disruptors. Should I be concerned that they might be interacting with my birth control?" So I think they're asking, "Would the birth control be less effective if I eat foods contaminated with this or eat foods like soy?" So that's a really specific example. If a person's on birth control pills, should they avoid soy? Is there any evidence that that's the case?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I have not seen evidence that that's the case, that they should avoid those. I think the things that make birth control less effective are things that are interfering with liver processing, which may not necessarily be related or are often not related to hormone disruptors, but I think they still, there are definitely certain herbs that we've talked about. You had mentioned St. John's wort.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

St. John's wort.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

There's a theoretical issue with grapefruit that's like a really old... I mean, I think my grandparents were taught not to take grapefruit juice if you're taking cholesterol medicine as well. But it's the same thing. It sort of theoretically is blocking the detoxification pathways in your liver that you need to metabolize your birth control pill.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

So the grapefruit juice could actually make the hormone levels go higher in the bloodstream, whereas the St. John's wort can cause the estrogen levels to drop so much that the birth control pills don't work. And I think that's actually been reported in some of the medical journals. So it's a real concern.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah. Agreed. Another thing, too, that we don't talk about a lot, usually they remind you, but antibiotics can interfere with your birth control reliability as well.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Oh, well, I think that might tie into the next question. The person asks, "Why do people respond so differently to different hormones? Is it genetics? Is it their microbiome?" So you'd think that the listed side effects would be more uniform. So I think they're saying if you go to one of these pharmacology textbooks and you look at the potential side effects of hormones, that it's going to be the same for everybody, but it isn't. So what's the answer here? Are human beings different biochemically?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

That's a trick question.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah. And if so, can you name some of the ways, the obvious ways that people are different?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah. So genetic component is always going to play a role. That could affect how you metabolize drugs, whether you metabolize them quickly or slowly, drugs including synthetic hormones. Your microbiome plays a big component in how you especially detox hormones and endocrine disruptors. And if processes in your microbiome are out of whack or there's a substance called beta-glucuronidase that's really neat, is a big component in whether your gut is functioning properly for detox. And so you can modulate beta-glucuronidase with supplements and food. And then of course the environmental exposure, where you live, what are you using, are you near other sources of toxins, what's your water supply like, your use of plastics?

All the lifestyle factors we were already discussing is variable for how much people use. I like to talk to my patients about it and try to get them to not use plastic at all, but one thing that always stuck with me or that was easier for them to approach, it's nearly impossible to remove plastic in your life, but the harder the plastic, the less of those compounds it has in it. So the softer, more pliable plastics are the ones that are higher. So if nothing else, you could reduce those plastic bags, like disposable plastic bags. I don't want to use a brand name, but the really thin plastic that you would use to wrap over the top of a bowl, something like that. And especially when you heat it. So you really want to not be heating your food or microwaving your food in something that's wrapped with plastic, especially if it's touching the food because it's like a liquid or soft food that's just... Those are easy ways, without trying to go insane and not have plastic in your life, but reducing some of the more offensive sources.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

So you're saying it's not effective to pick the melted plastic off your burrito after you've had it in the microwave?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

It's probably not the best way to go about it.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Not the best thing. And the other thing, you mentioned antibiotics. If somebody takes antibiotics, doesn't that knock out their microbiome or the healthy parts of their microbiome? And wouldn't that affect how they're responding to hormones?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah. I mean, potentially a double whammy, right? So the liver component that we talked about because of how they're getting processed, but then depending on the antibiotic, possibly wiping out your gut and definitely affecting beta-glucuronidase in the gut.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

So there's all kinds of complex interactions going on in your gut, genetics, your environment. All these things are interacting all the time, and certainly that's going to impact how you respond to hormones, correct?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Correct.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

So last but not least, what strategies can you recommend for detoxing some of these endocrine disruptors? So what organs are involved and what benefits those organs? What supports them?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

So from the detoxification standpoint, the major organs you want to support are your gut, so lower gut digestion as well as your liver. Especially hormones and estrogenic hormones get first pass broken down in your liver and then second pass taken out in your gut. So you need both of those working to be able to detox them. Well, so you can avoid and you can add, so you can look at it both ways. But one of my favorite things to tell patients, especially if they had a lot of PMS issues, was to avoid caffeine or reduce caffeine. Some people were fine with that. Some people hated me for it and they never came back. So it just depends on where you're at with coffee. But because that ties up the same detox pathway so you're not able to detoxify estrogens in your body because you'll be working on the caffeine, especially if you're like a sipping-caffeine-all-day kind of person.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

And then my other favorite was, you can use any cruciferous vegetable, but broccoli sprouts, and at the time, they were $3 a box. Now they're more like $6 a box.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

But buying a box of Brussels sprouts, you can put them in your wrap, you can put them on top of your salad, they have a nice flavor and just sort of add them in here or there. And they're really potent as far as a food that you can eat to have a direct effect.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

I can say I love broccoli sprouts. It's probably the top recommendation I make for almost everybody.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah. I like them better than broccoli. Just nice.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So one last part of this, which is that you had mentioned women on birth control pills can probably universally benefit from taking B vitamins and maybe some other nutrients. Wouldn't that same principle apply for estrogen-like compounds in our environment that our body could process them better if we have these basic nutrients?

Dr. Amanda Frick:

Yeah. I mean, I said they were the most recommended thing in my practice, but so is magnesium. I think almost everyone would get a B complex of some form or another. You can get a B complex more weighted in B12 or B6 or B5, whatever it is you're looking for and what your patient's needs are. But magnesium is, again, we're just so deplete of magnesium in our diets and in this country, and that affects so many things. Also, mood and hormone detox and, and, and. I mean, it's like the miracle mineral.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

The miracle mineral. I like that.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

If I was going to pick one, it's nice alliteration.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yes.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

But that would be another great add.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Okay. Well that's been a fascinating discussion, and I assume that people are going to be able to go out and act on that right away.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

I have one little last-minute tip, do as we say, not as we do. I do not recommend putting broccoli sprouts in a smoothie. I tried it once, thinking I was being smart. It was ...

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Bitter.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

... not, not smart.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

Yeah, yeah, because the healthy ingredients in the broccoli are by definition bitter compounds. So just be aware of that.

Dr. Amanda Frick:

And sulfur-y compounds, when you break them all up in a smoothie.

Dr. Robert Rountree:

And sulfur-y compounds. True. All right, folks, that's all the time we have this week. Be sure to leave a comment and subscribe to the show. We really appreciate it. Thanks for listening and thanks, Amanda, for podcasting with me once again.

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